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Topic: How do u define Secular or Secularism? (Read 35 times) |
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debasish_ch
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Re: How do u define Secular or Secularism?
« Reply #24 on: June 16th, 2005, 2:35am » |
 
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TC-ye amare mosto ekta ego boost dilay, kintu ami tumar ei prashangsha-r jogyo nay. Jai houk, baad deo ita katha.
Amar mone hoy, what we need is a meaningful mixture of pride and introspection within ourselves... sourav-e budhoi itarei optimization koy.
Madhurena Samapayet... ei shob bitikichhiri kutarka-er chaite amra ektu galpa-o to kortam paari, adda-r mejaje.
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Nilbarna Srigal
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Bijili
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Sundara he, hero lajjito smito mukho shubho aloke, abagunthana chaya ghuchaye diye. Ba'dhu kon alo laglo chokhe
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Re: How do u define Secular or Secularism?
« Reply #25 on: June 16th, 2005, 4:01am » |
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on June 15th, 2005, 3:43am, debasish_ch wrote:| Sourav laments 'jodi ingrez ra na aito'. Remember dudes, ingrez-er prachur abadan aase amrar desho, mostly related to scientific and technological advancements. And another very interesting aspect is that their invasion was a blessing in disguise, it actually helped us to develop as a nation, and not a conglomerate of kingdoms. |
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Debashish-da, koyek ta bishoye alochona korte jacchi. tumi je bolle Ingrej der abodan amader deshe aache ta kintu thik ebong pore sei abodan gulir kothao kichu bolbo. Tumi eo bolecho je Ingrej ra amader desher boigganik o projukti-bidyar sapholle onek abodan aache. Tao manlam, kintu Ingrej ra Bharote ashar purbe ba Ingrej ra Bharote thaka kalin je Bharoter bigyan ba projukti chorcha kharap chilo ta kintu thik nay. Ingrej ra Bharote ashar purbe Mughal der amole Europe er cheye Bharote Bigyan ebong progukti bidya khubi unnoti chilo. Chuto ekta proman Maharaja Jay Singh er tairi "Jantar Mantar". Onek Portugueese o Olandaj ra Bharoter bigyan chorchar adhunikota dekhe mugdho hohechilo. Industrial Revolution Europe er moto Bharote shobe matro shuru hoyechilo kintu tokhon Mughal samrajjer surjo digonte dholte laglo. Bhatote Europe er moto aar Induatrial Revolution holo na! Thik tokhoni Ingrej ra Bhorote ashte shuru kore.
Ingrej der onek durniti amra jani. Kintu Inrejra Bharoter jonno ki ki bhalo kore giyeche ta ektu chorcha kora jaak.
Musalmaander kache parajito Hindu somaj moddho juger kusanskarer andhokare jorjorito hoye uthlo. Bairer prithibi teke nijeder sankochito korte korte emon porjaye daralo je Hindu dhorme aar Dharma roilo na, adharme dhora poripurno hote laglo. Bidhoba ramanir kacha mangso agune purar gandho aar bibhotso chitkar tokhon Bharote sorboda shona jeto. Bidyasagar ebong Ram Mohoner moto somaj sebider Sati-Daho prota nibarone sahajjo korechilo Ingraj ra. Ganga sagore shishuder jole nikkhep korar beaini aain Ingrej rai toiri korechilo. Bal bidhoba hajar hajar narider punoray bibaher dabi Ingrej rai diyechilo.
Ingrej ra Bharote ja kharap korechilo ta hoyto je kuno jati i porajito ba poradhin jatir upor korbe, emon ki er cheyeo koto nirjaton korche ek jati onno jatir upor. Poradhinotar ei kothur niyom. Bharot o koreche emon bebohar - Singhal dwipe bosobaskari Onarjo jati ke lupto kore diyeche Uttor o Purbo Bharat theke jaoya Singhali Arjo jatira. Sumatra, Java ebong Malay dwip samuho ek somay Bharoter poradhine chilo.
Poradhinotar kolonko jeno kuno jatir upor na laage. shohoje ei daag chare na. Bharat paay 800 bochor dhore bibinno jatir kache poradhin hoyeche. Taai poradhinotar bhab ta amader mon theke oti sohoje dur hobe na. kintu ei olpo 50 bochore ja Bharot koreche, ta khub kom jati swadhinotar ei oplo somoye korte pereche. Aro 50 bochore Bharot kothay jabe ke jaane!
Itihash sob somoy mone rakhte hoy. Karon itihash amader onek kichui shikkha dey. Sudur otit holeo itihasher gorbo theke gourobannito hote hoy aar kulosh*to opokarjer jonno kkhoma o chaite hoy. Igrej ra je Bharot ke prothom ek desh toiri korlo eta kintu thik noy. Itihashe onek baar Bharoter manchito ek desher purnota labh korechilo. Chandragupta Murya Uttor, Poshchim o Purbo Bharat ke ek korechilen. Emon ki Alaxander er mrityur por Seleucus ke juddhe hariye Afganistan totha Moddho Asia r onek prodesh Bharoter antorbhukto korechilen. Seleucus er kanya r Chandragupter sathe bibaho chukti tei shantir sandhi stapon hoyechilo Bharotio o Greek der majhe. Poroborti kale Mohamanyo Ashok Dakkhinatya Murya samrajjer antarbhukta koren. Tokhon Bharoter manchitro joto boro chilo aar kono kaleo Bharoter manchitro temon akar ney ni, emon ki Ingrej der amoleo noy. Gupta rao paay samasta Bharat ke ek korechilo. Harshabardhoner rajotto kaleo Bharoter maanchitra onek birat chilo. Mughal rao Bharat ke bishalakar korechilo. Taai Ingrej rai je Bharat ke ek korechilo ba Ingrej der doyay amra bibinno desh na hoye ek desh peyechi ta kintu bhul!
Gandhi bolechen "No culture can live if it attempts to be exclusive". Moddho juge Bharoter taai hoyechilo. Kala Pani r kusankar aar Arya jatitter andha-biswas kore Bharat Prithibir samne dorja bondho kore dilo. Arab ra tokhon Arab-sagor, Bangoposagor, Malay sagorer ekocchotto adhipoti hoye uthlo aar chotur dik theke Musalmaander akromone Bharot ebong Bharoter sansrkiti anusaran-kari desh guli poradhinotar shikar holo. Kono samay dwar bandho kore nije ke mohan mone kora thik noy. Je khanei gyaner kirtan sekhanei gyaner prosad paoyar jonno jaoya uchit. Se bidesh houk ba je tumake shashon korche ba korche sei jatir kach tekei houk, gyanarjon sorbadhik. Taai Rabindranath bolechilen, "Pashchime aji khuliyache dwar, setha hote sobe aane upohaar."
Abar tini bolechen, "Chol re chol sobe Bhorato santan, matri-bhumi kore aahobban". Bidheshe jaao, gyan orjon koro, ortho sanchoy koro. Kintu nijer desh ke bhule jeyo na, nijer desher manush ke bhule jeyo na, nijer sanskritike bhule jeyo na. Aar jara nejer desh, nejer manush, nijer sanskriti bhule jaay tader kei deshodhohi bole. Kintu emon desho dhohira Bharaoteo onek aache jara nijer sanskriti bolte kichui jane na ba jante agrohi o naay. Tara deshodrohir cheyeo boro deshodrohi!
Bideshe gelei je manush desh ke bhule jaay, ei rokom chita kora bhul. Desh ke jara bhalobashe desher baire gele tara nijer desh ke aro bhalobashe. Rabindranath, Madhusadhan Dutta ebong aro onekei bideshe giye desh ke thik bhabe chinte perechilen. Bharat swadhinotar chinta Gandhir South Africa y thaktei jegechilo. Raja Ram Mohan Ray bideshe giye onek bhabe nijer jati totha desh ke andhokar theke alokito korechilen. Sei Mahatmar samadhi ajo England er Bristol shohore shayito aache. Amartya Sen deshe ebong bideshe bidya labh kore ekhon nijer desher totha jirno manusher dukkho dur korar jonno jibonke orpito korechen. Desher chele meye ra deshe i to phire ashbe! Tara kobe abar bi-deshi holo? Karon onek bi-deshi ra to desher majhei aache! Kemon bolo?
Iti Bijli 
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| « Last Edit: June 16th, 2005, 4:30am by Bijili » |
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Marana re tunhu momo shyam-o saman!
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kigoobe
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Great work, Premasish
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Re: How do u define Secular or Secularism?
« Reply #26 on: June 16th, 2005, 4:38am » |
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 Great Bijli ... Khub aram failaam foriya ... ekdom moner kotha lekso ...
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| « Last Edit: June 16th, 2005, 1:02pm by kigoobe » |
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debasish_ch
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Re: How do u define Secular or Secularism?
« Reply #27 on: June 16th, 2005, 8:57am » |
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Bijili didi, darun, durdharsha, terrific. Tomar moto eto guchiye keu likhte paare ki na jaani na, ami khub kam lok kei tomar moto eto shundar aar punkhanupunkha bhabe kono jinisher barnana dite dekhechi.
Kintu reply ta ekkhuni dite paarchi na... shiggir-i debo. Tobe je jai boluk, tomar ekta katha-keo contradict kora jaachhe na, khub beshi amra hoyto aaro koyekta aspects niye alochona korte paari.
Tumi likhecho je ingrez ra ashar purbe-o bharate bigyan ebong prajukti-r pragatir prachur udaharan aache, ta bhul noy. Shudhumatro Aryabhatta ityadi rai noy... applied technology maane byaboharik prajukti-teo bharat prachur kaaj korechilo ek samay. Kono rakam bideshi sahajya charai bharate jalsinchan-er byapare prachur kaaj hoyechilo ek samay.
Kintu tumi je likhecho je mughal samrajyer samay-o bharate bigyan charcha abyahoto chilo... eta ektu khoj niye dekhte hobe. Karon shudhu matro Jantar Mantar namer kumir chhana dekhe eto boro ekta siddhanto niye fela thik noy. Tobe off the record bolchi, amar dharana je mughal samrajye (ebong motamuti puro musalman shashankaale) agragatir nidarshan chhilo a. sahitya ebong sangeet, b. samrat der ahankar ja kina sthapatya shilpo-ke egiye jete sahajya koreche. Bigyan-er byapaar ta khoj niye janaabo.
Dwitiyata, tumi likhecho je ingrez ra ashar purbe-o bharatbarsha anek samay-i ek hoyechilo, shudhu khapchara bhaabe alada alada rajader samasthi chilo na. Eta tarker khatire amio mene nicchi... kintu koto samay? Boro boro samrajya gulor kta choto hisheb diye di:
Maurya: 321 BC theke shuru kore motamuti 140 bochor eder bharatborsher ekta besh boroshoro bhaager opor adhipotyo chhilo.
Gupta: 250 AD theke shuru kore pray 250 bochor era rajotto koreche . Tobe taar moddhe-o majhe majhe dakkhinatyer rajagulo (Pallava aar Chalukya) beriye jete cheyeche, taader kaan dhore abaar mainstream-er shonge jukto kora hoyeche.
Delhi Sultan: 1200 AD theke shuru kore 500 bochor-er ektu beshi era rajotto koreche... pratham dike eder samrajya chilo besh chhoto. Mughal amale babur-er samay theke eder rajotto bhalo bhaabe agrasar hoy.
Kintu obbhesh chaarte paarchi na, arektu jhagra kore ni. Baare baarei amra dekhechi je kendribhuta samrajya ektu durbal hoye porlei bairer diker rajya gulo chute beriye geche, taate kore puro shashan pranali tai aaro durbol hoye poreche... parinam parabarti shashak der kaache porajoy. Eta ekhonkaar dineo bharatbarshe hocche, uttar purbanchaler ugrapanthi sangathan gulor shobcheye joralo daabi holo je oder nijossho desh chai... kono kono chhoto chhoto khetre nijossho pradesh chai. Swadhinatar por 50 bochor amra periye eschi, ebong goto 35 bochore 13 ti natun rajyer janma diyechi... shobcheye boro karon chhilo bhashagoto bibhinnata. Bharat ekhono koto tuku ek hoye aache, ebong kotokhani ek hoye thaakbe, ta keu jaane na.
Aar tomar teen number point-ta... bideshe na gele swadesher paripurnata puropuri samyak bhaabe pratyakhya kora jay na, eta niyeo kichu katha bolbo... kintu aaj noy kaal. Ekhon ektu kaaj korte dao. Please.
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Nilbarna Srigal
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Rupam
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Re: How do u define Secular or Secularism?
« Reply #28 on: June 20th, 2005, 5:18pm » |
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khub bhala discussion hoitase...aro bejan mato.
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-Rupam
rehte hein zameen par hum lekin, hai khwab chaaand taron ke.
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didibhai
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Re: How do u define Secular or Secularism?
« Reply #29 on: June 25th, 2005, 7:28am » |
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Dear Sourav,
I had promised to reply to you. But, I am glad to see so many posts on this subject. And some people have touched on the topic and perhaps I will parody their views as they are also mine.
I think that we are so entangled in our pride of our 'praachin' time that we almost overlook our present weaknesses. I wrote the meaning of 'Secular' as in the English thesaurus it means,
"worldly, material, lay or spiritual."
Also stated that India:
"Is India secular? "
"Is India democratic?"
And answered NO to both.
Brown eyes has touched on the exact points I was going to raise. As it has been pointed out, true secularism cannot be practiced until "political and religious sphere are not divorced"
If a nation does not interfere in religious practices of its citizens then it should not accommodate it publicly either. The chaos that is created with every festival in India, infringes on individual rights.
True democracy cannot thrive until polities of society becomes transparent, state funded and accountable.
It is true that India is a multi-faceted nation, but that is its beauty and strength.
However, its resources and its beauty is being raped for political and personal gains, which affects the livelyhood of ordinary people. A democratic society is governed through citizen rights and redress procedure. But, India still needs to enforce those rights equally and without discrimination.
Political capitalisation that manipulates a nation for political gains cannot be truely democratic.
What is more compelling is that, India has the worlds largest pool of middle to high middle class people (350 million) who are sleeping and care aless for its development. Democracy means "people power" . I am yet to see a group of people agitating for good causes like, health care, education, infrastructure, misuse of funds etc rather than silly politics.
I can really go on and on but I am sure you have gathered where i am coming from.
coutn dracula-
I am one of 1.2 billion people, that is why I feel so strongly about this great nation that has been the victim of so much abuse. And mentioning my thesis, I have infact concluded that in one of my 'Third World Politics' essays "We the People" that India is neither truely practicing secular nor a democratic nation- I stated that its 'Pseudo-democracy'.
Most of you here seem to be very patriotic, but are you patriotic enough to bring change in a positive way?
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mon_amar
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Re: How do u define Secular or Secularism?
« Reply #30 on: June 25th, 2005, 8:43pm » |
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on June 14th, 2005, 7:05pm, Bijili wrote:tokhon mother theresa bolechilen, "you are right my child, i did not born in india but i choose to become one and you accidently became an indian"
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How true mother Taresa was!!! "you accidently became an indian"
there is a vast difference between being a Bhratiya and being bharatiya only by birth. Most of us are only bharatiya by birth.
We become Bharatiya when there is a match between India and Pak, when 100000 of soldiers die in Kargil war....but how many of us incorporate the values of being a Bharatiya in our lives? No we do not....
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didibhai
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Re: How do u define Secular or Secularism?
« Reply #31 on: June 26th, 2005, 3:57am » |
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Absolutely!! Mon-amar.
We hide behind two faces. Most of us don't pratice what we preach, I included.
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